Want to chat with We Know members outside of WoW? Come join us by clicking the "Chat" tab above, or connecting through your favorite IRC Client to:
Server: irc.freenode.net
Channel: #weknow
Shaman Healing 4.2
  • So, how's it going so far? I'm interested in anyone that has done anything so far in 4.2 but in particular, Kat and Hronk, how did last nights raid go? Did you do anything different for gems/enchants/reforge? What are you keeping haste at? How was mana with the changes to the totem and everything else?

    Jexii | Mexiico | Jezaal
  • I kept everything the same - we were going into a nerfed BWD/BoT. With two shaman and a druid there's a bunch of HoT/passive healing going around so I kind of just sat there (more than usual). I run in pretty much all-spirit gear (one reason I haven't bothered with the set pieces) and a 500-odd effective spirit trinket so generally just doing nothing for a bit is enough. I did notice the mana tide totem was slower while pugging the trolls but it didn't really make much difference (to me). We'd have to hit the more challenging bits of the content to really notice differences, I think.
  • Also the two tanks were both DKs, further reducing the healing duties a bit. It really wasn't a good comparison day lol.
    The chintacle can sense fear.
  • Maloch said:

    Also the two tanks were both DKs, further reducing the healing duties a bit.



    Or so the Germans/DKs would like to have us believe! The DK self-healing is offset by lower avoidance and other mechanics and on average, one kind of tank is not much different to heal than another (some tanks are easier/harder on particular encounters, etc, etc, etc).
  • See, that's where you're totally wrong; my DK had the heirloom item ME =P

    Totally makes any tank better.
    The chintacle can sense fear.
  • So I was just in a PuG and smacked myself with an 80k GHW crit. That's kind of fun.

    What I am interested in is whether HW and 2set t11 bonus are actually useful now - they might end up generating net mana, if nothing else. I don't actually use HW other than in low mana/OOM situations. I've seen from logs (WE ARE WATCHING YOOOOOOU) that Jexii throws it around here and there so let us know how it works out.
  • So let's see... we did our first attempts in firelands. Mana was ok. I did go oom once near the end but I think the other healers may have died on that attempt by that time? I need to play around with crit and mastery to see if more crit might be better.

    As far as HW vs. GHW. For me it depends on the fight and then what I'm doing to try things out. The last time I was at Nef, since I tank heal there, I was trying to let Bel get lower, pause healing, then do GHW vs. a bunch of HW. HW is basically free. But pausing allows faster mana regen.

    The problem with doing GHW and pausing, because I forgot to tell Harpin ahead of time is she'd see bel getting lower and of course heal him up. Which then she'd go oom faster. So to do this strat we either need strict healing assignments or very clear communication.

    When I heal raid HW comes in handy to top people off since its free. In particular on Chimeron I pretty much never use GHW since HW gets me to the 10k amount easily enough. I use HW when I have time to heal up and riptide and unleash for the fast heals.

    Also, I am loving the new totem spirit link in PVP but also great in some fights like nef on the pillars since we do a crackle there.

    After a few more tries in firelands I'll try to get some logs and info up so we can start brainstorming on how to best approach healing and stats now.

    Jexii | Mexiico | Jezaal
  • Jexii said:


    As far as HW vs. GHW. For me it depends on the fight and then what I'm doing to try things out. The last time I was at Nef, since I tank heal there, I was trying to let Bel get lower, pause healing, then do GHW vs. a bunch of HW. HW is basically free. But pausing allows faster mana regen.



    The reason I don't like HW (in non-oomy situations) is that it does little, you're casting while doing it, thus killing regen. I think this was expressed somewhere in an EJ thread - NS/HS/RT if your target might die in the next 2-odd seconds. If not, GHW and pick the next target. I've been scouring logs to try to figure out whether this is right, delusional or somewhere in-between.

    On the other hand, with the 4.2 changes it might actually _generate_ net mana, making it a sort of healing 'telluric currents'. Help us, Obi Wan Keloggy!
  • I think at the end of BWD, we were still doing a lot of 3 healing until the last time though in which we switched to 2 heals. When three healing it seemed like HW came in handy since it was free and I could top off the raid members easily and the raid did not need a lot of healing since they were good about staying out of poo and had 2 other healers keeping up with it. I also wasn't having mana issues unless I spam GHW or HS. So they weren't low enough to need GHW, but low enough to get healed up, and as the raid healer I don't like leaving them like that and then our other healers do it instead and use up mana. I don't know, maybe goofy logic, but that's what goes through my head.

    But in firelands I expect to use HW a lot less again. Last night I used it quite a bit less already in favor of GHW and HS when someone needed health fast (like on rageface).

    I still am torn though on how low to bring haste. It just uses up mana faster but at the same time I do need my heals to be fast enough to avoid deaths. The tipping points don't seem all that convenient to getting to the next level without sacrificing other stats. But I have toyed with going with more crit than mastery and see what happens... But with progression raiding I tend to heal up raid members with low health and that is when mastery comes in particularly handy. I mean, what better time to have a lot of healing available than when someone is low? Crit is just not as dependeable for healing up member who is almost dead. Mastery at least allows a non crit spell be predictably larger.

    Jexii | Mexiico | Jezaal
  • There's an interesting talk Here about the Mastery vs Crit discussion. Generally (thats a key term) they seem to be saying that haste isn't great above the first break point at which you get another riptide tick (something like 918 I think) when compared to the benefit of mastery and crit. The maths seemed to indicated that 'generally' crit was more valuable than mastery when the target you were healing was above about 70% health, and now with 200% crits, it's moved that number down to about 50%.

    Since my resto Shammy is horde and doesn't raid, I'm defintely thinking more 'yay crit' than before as party health in 5-mans is more often greater than 50%.
  • Jexii said:


    I still am torn though on how low to bring haste. It just uses up mana faster but at the same time I do need my heals to be fast enough to avoid deaths. The tipping points don't seem all that convenient to getting to the next level without sacrificing other stats.



    Yeah I think 'haste just makes you oom faster' is one of those pithy, succinct and completely wrong bits of wow folk wisdom. Would any healer say no to having their cast-times, say, halved? Does any healer stop healing during heroism because all that haste is going to fire them right into oomland?

    I run at somewhere well above the first 'extra tick' point and well below the second. I fiddle with it until I like it, more or less. If i find myself clicking all over my gcds, I'll take it up a notch. I think it really boils down to personal preference. At least that's what I tell myself!
  • As I'm in the process of gearing up my Shaman i've been reviewing the new mechanics and working out the best way to gear out. In WOTLK I generally favored haste until it got the GCD down to 1.0s after which I generally added crit/mp5 in equal amounts after that.

    In Cataclysm given the stupid amounts of haste required to get the GCD down to 1s (around 5000 with WOA) I think its probably not possible/practical at the first tier without serious gimping of other stats. Plus from the time I spent healing on the Paladin I found the pace slower so I think its less important to GCD cap haste.

    The breakpoints for haste with WOA down are 261/610/916 and 2005/3050/3966 (extra tick of glyphed Riptide, extra tick of Earthliving, extra tick of Healing Rain/unglyphed Riptide). Given that even in the quest greens and blues that currently make up my healing set I'm way over the first set of breakpoints so I think getting to 2005 haste for the extra tick of Riptide is probably a good target for the 333->359 ilvl range.

    In terms of Spirit i've read in a couple of places that for t11 content most progression Shaman were shooting for around 2500 spirit (with trinket buffs) for regeneration (no numbers yet for t12) so that probably a good number to shoot for.

    Beyond that I haven't formed an opinion on crit verses mastery so will probably be adding in equal amounts until I get a feel of which is better.
  • Zoriana said:

    I think getting to 2005 haste for the extra tick of Riptide is probably a good target for the 333->359 ilvl range.



    I don't think that's sanely feasible in t11 or t12 gear, currently.

  • hronk said:

    Zoriana said:

    I think getting to 2005 haste for the extra tick of Riptide is probably a good target for the 333->359 ilvl range.



    I don't think that's sanely feasible in t11 or t12 gear, currently.



    A couple of the Shaman in Serious Casual are pushing 2000 haste in ~359 gear without any odd reforging or weird gem choices, so its doable at the ilvl 359 level and certainly doable at ilvl 372.

    I agree its probably optimistic for lower (ilvl 333-346) gear levels.
  • Really? I guess I haven't gone through all the gear with a fine-toothed comb but I can't imagine trying to hit 2k haste without adverse effects on the rest of your stats, especially with the changes to crit. Of course, the armoury is down the second it might actually be germane to a discussion!
  • When the armory comes back up check out 'Pdxmarcos'. He has ~1950 with a couple of heroic items, but is also running with a PvP weapon as a main-hand. As a goblin he gets 1% spell haste for free so doesn't need to go to the full 2005 to hit the 4th breakpoint.
  • I just can't imagine stacking that much haste at the risk of losing crit (additional healing power and regen) and mastery (additional throughput, good for below 70%) which seems good for progression raiding.

    After more research, for now I'm sticking with ~916 haste then stacking mastery after that (assuming i have enough spirit). Since the tipping point between crit and mastery seems to be 70% health, it seems like its most important to have big heals at lower health which is what we get alot of in the progression raids. If people aren't taking a lot of damage then its not as important to heal up as much as fast.

    For lower damage fights, like shannox until the end, I have a lot of time to pause for mana regen. On fights like beth'tilak, my hps is much higher because I'm healing non stop. In both scenarios my current set up seemed to work for our group but I'll keep us all posted as real life scenarios work itself out.

    I would say the first time or two through fights I am most likely to go oom because i can't yet anticipate when people will take the most damage and err on the side of using bigger faster heals to be safe. As we get to know the fights I can fill in with cheaper slower/smaller heals and heal the players most likely to get hurt first and fastest. Seems to really make it easier to preserve mana once you know a fight.

    Jexii | Mexiico | Jezaal
  • Just a note: with the change for crit heals from 150% to 200%, the crossover point for mastery vs. crit drops to about 50% health rather than 70% (for single-target heals; multi-target the crossover drops from about 85% down to 70% health). Mastery may still be better for progression, but crit will be better later.
  • Bouks said:

    Just a note: with the change for crit heals from 150% to 200%, the crossover point for mastery vs. crit drops to about 50% health rather than 70% (for single-target heals; multi-target the crossover drops from about 85% down to 70% health). Mastery may still be better for progression, but crit will be better later.



    Yeah that's right, I remember that but just got 70 stuck in my head for some reason. But yeah, still for progression mastery seems more predictable. For example I know someone with low low health will get a heal from GHW for 45k (especially with unleash right before needing a big heal) or more with mastery even without a crit. With more crit, they could be more likely to crit but then the heal could be unpredictably low? Thoughts? Maybe I'm way off base here. Maybe max hps is more important.

    I don't know, i'm definitely open to trying crit, I do go back and forth on it. The issue is that mastery is working for me. Maybe if I went to crit things would be much better, but what if I wipe the whole raid! Ok, I don't think that much hinges on it, but still.

    Jexii | Mexiico | Jezaal
  • Zoriana said:

    When the armory comes back up check out 'Pdxmarcos'. He has ~1950 with a couple of heroic items, but is also running with a PvP weapon as a main-hand. As a goblin he gets 1% spell haste for free so doesn't need to go to the full 2005 to hit the 4th breakpoint.



    Well, I don't think that's really 'sane' reforging in the sense that the player's taken every reforge to haste, every haste enchant, every haste yellow gem and picked what seems to be a lot of the max-haste gear. And has a bunch of heroic pieces. And a racial. The cost of this is a 12% crit rate. I do think it speaks to the relative flexibility of Shaman healing right now - I run at 3k spirit myself which is well outside the 'recommended' value.

    Composition also seems to make a big difference, our current group runs with either two shamans or a shaman and two druids so there's a great deal of HoTs and passive healing flying around. There's generally plenty of time for the big burst heals from the shaman(s). In a different setup, I might view haste differently. Right now an extra tick of riptide for me would just be an extra tick of overheal. 2k haste is maybe a specific stylistic choice, rather than a general goal.

  • On another note - I went if not-quite-all-but-mostly-crit (at the expense of haste and mastery) today, just to see how that works out. Unfortunately most of the BWD fights we did today were just too short to really draw any sensible conclusions or comparisons to our previous logs.

    I did run an entire one-shot, fairly snappy mostly-guild ZG without drinking (mageless, didn't bring water, like a pro).
  • Jexii said:

    I don't know, i'm definitely open to trying crit, I do go back and forth on it. The issue is that mastery is working for me. Maybe if I went to crit things would be much better, but what if I wipe the whole raid! Ok, I don't think that much hinges on it, but still.


    Given that you're running progression, mastery is just fine as a way to go. It hasn't gotten any worse - crit just got better (though no more predictable).

    The thing I took away from the analysis I read was that once you're in farm mode, it's probably appropriate to emphasize crit; during progression emphasize mastery; repeat for any new content. The balance is that close. Which really may mean that you can do what you want and be right either way. :)
  • http://lifeingroup5.com/?p=2381 is worth a read, the important practical conclusion there is that 2t12 >> 4t11 bonus. The derivation is theoretical, before I ran across it, I did a similar thing based on actual WK shaman healer boss fight parses. The results were the same. In fact, because of the poor itemization of the t11 chest, just grabbing the t12 and breaking the set adds up to about break-even or more likely, a small upgrade.
  • Thanks for posting Hronk. Seems like similar conclusions to what we've been saying so far. As far as stat priority:

    Int > Spirit > Haste (to 916) > then Crit if raid doesn't take a lot of damage and mastery if they do.

    So do I reforge to crit until hard modes? Or just stay mastery since we're not dying because of lack of healing in most cases and my numbers are pretty consistent with my healing friends (sometimes higher sometimes lower).

    Definitely looking like the 2t12 is the thing to get which I should be able to get ASAP now with VP cap reseting today.

    Jexii | Mexiico | Jezaal
  • I think if the setup works for you, there's probably not much point in reforging.

    Mastery worked well for me before the change, I switched to all-crit after and didn't really notice the effect much initially, I think just because I was a lot more conservative, mostly healed tanks or jumped in when burst hps was needed. My default state was 'not casting unless it can't be helped'.

    I've become a lot more cast-happy since (copying j00000!) and the way crit improves both throughput and regen does pay off. I'll report how it works out in FL, which is really the only way to sensibly compare. Right now the benefit for me is largely constrained to: I don't oom and I don't drink. In fact, the only time I find myself drinking is on bear runs and even then, it's hardly every pull or mostly when pulls go somewhat off. This hardly screams 'reforge'. It does seem largely a matter of style/preference/comp/situation rather than a 'must be exactly like so'. Which maybe is an indication the design works. A bit of exposure to raid healing in the 25 made the haste-heavy builds Geren was linking make more sense to me, as well.

    Two not totally-related things

    - Power Torrent and throughput in general seem to win somewhere around the beginning of the transition from t11 to 't11.5 reward/crafted' and t12-level gear.

    - I was impressed to read in the linked post that his HST healed for nearly 3k hps. I noticed today that mine hit almost 2.5k hps on Chim, granted, a heal-gimicky fight. It's still a very substantial chunk of healing (which, incidentally, is in no way improved by crit, is improved by mastery and by Power Torrent) and so the cost of having that totem not down (say, not refreshing after mana tide) or misplaced out of range of raid can be quite high.
  • Yeah and remember that healing totem is still party wide, I need to remember to remind our raid leader to put me the party with people that will be near me in fights that spread us out which seems to happen quite a bit in Firelands with the spider, shannox and the bird lady.


    Jexii | Mexiico | Jezaal
  • So, the stupiecrit build report -

    Excellent in dungeons, all T11, tank healing. Essentially drinkless.

    It does work in FL-10 but it's much less forgiving of mistakes (mine and others) and somewhat less effective in the raid AOE-healing situations that seem to pop up there. The giant numbers that pop up are also fun to watch. Back to mastery and carrying water, for me...
  • Unrelated - EJ says unleash, in raid, is largely a waste of a GCD. I took them at their word, then relatively recently, I had it mouseover macroed for pvp. It's something else to hit in a dungeon when bored and I can see situational arguments for it when prepping for a big damage spike (say, before an electrocute on Nef). Overall, though, my impression from use and/or logstaring seems to be the same - largely a waste of a GCD.
  • Hronk, can you say more on what you're seeing in the logs on unleash? I always wonder about that one, here was my reasoning on when to use it. If you're in a mobile fight and riptide is on cooldown, you can't do anything until you stop so why not use unleash to boost the next heal and just get a small bit on someone? Or in Baleroc where, when you're on the tank, you can't heal anyone else but might be prepping for a big heal you do unleash to make the big heal bigger. Of course, it doesn't seem to make sense for just inserting into a particular rotation (like always before GHW or something). But are you seeing that it is better to cast nothing than unleash in particular when on the move?

    So I do probably use it on a somewhat regular basis as a filler when I can't cast anything else. I am not generally having mana problems with how I currently am operating once I learn a fight and know when to go all out or conserve, but wondering if I should rethink how I use unleash.

    Jexii | Mexiico | Jezaal
  • (I had this conversation online with Jexii so I'm reposting here)

    So I do probably use it on a somewhat regular basis as a filler when I can't cast anything else.


    It works perfectly well in these situations, just less well than it sounds. But if you're on the move, have nothing else to cast/gcds to spare, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it.

    Even in the best of circumstances, it's much weaker than two tidal waves-hasted GHWs. I imagine EJ guide dislikes it for that reason. One sensible counter-argument is 'when do you really absolutely need two TW-hasted GHWs?'
    Post edited by hronk at 2011-08-13 06:44:56
  • hronk said:

    when do you really absolutely need two TW-hasted GHWs?

    When you absolutely, positively must heal every last mother f@$ker in the room. Accept no substitutes.
    But I need tacos! I need them or I will explode. That happens to me sometimes.
  • Bellaluna said:

    hronk said:

    when do you really absolutely need two TW-hasted GHWs?

    When you absolutely, positively must heal every last mother f@$ker in the room. Accept no substitutes.

    When the "other" Shaman dies ;-)
  • So having been back Shaman healing for about a month now generally I think the class is in reasonable shape. Still a lot of minor and medium sized issues that need to be fixed, but we aren't back in the dark days of 3.1 when we were screwed by both encounter design and class mechanics. Still...

    Water Shield - This needs to be fixed ASAP before my 'H' key dies as having to refresh it every 10 seconds in some cases else going OOM is a fun and creative game mechanic (tm). They mentioned that they were looking at it but then they looked at totem stomping in PVP for a long time before they actually did anything.

    Spirit Link Totem - Seems to have very situational use mostly because nobody apart from the Shaman is usually standing in range of it when you need to use it. So far in all the encounters I've run I've used it twice. They definitely need to increase the range on it.

    Healing Rain - A great, great ability. Now getting people to actually stand in the good poo rather than the bad poo is a whole other story.

    Chain Heal - I think they've finally succeeded in getting Shaman to cast something other than Chain Heal. Mostly by making Chain Heal utterly useless for most cases. In fact the only use case I can come up with for Chain Heal is to top up people who are standing in Healing Rain. Given that this was supposed to be the signature Resto shaman spell its a strange place to be in. How the mighty have fallen.

    I still have no real clear thoughts on Haste verses Crit verses Mastery. To me Haste feels the safe option as its tried and tested although doesn't have as much effect given that we aren't spamming Chain Heal anymore. If you are primarily tank healing then probably going the Crit route is the way to go (which was how it was in Wrath). Mastery seems kind of difficult to judge the effectiveness of so I haven't quite formed an opinion on it yet. Once I've grabbed the last few pieces I can get from the content I'm currently working on then I'll start doing a bit more experimentation.
  • hronk said:

    One sensible counter-argument is 'when do you really absolutely need two TW-hasted GHWs?'



    When healing a DK tank.
  • Not a good one.
    The chintacle can sense fear.
  • Is there a 'min number of targets' at which point Healing Rain becomes worth its mana cost? For example I have heard that in most 5 mans you're better off using a couple three chain heals versus throwing a healing rain on 3-4 people from an efficiency standpoint. Haven't experimented with it much though. Thoughts?
  • Generally if in a 5-man I need to heal 3 or more people I go with Healing Rain. Usually I position it so that one edge covers the main tank and any melee and then if the encounter allows I move up myself into the other edge to make the 3rd in the hope that the 2 other ranged gets the idea and also move in. After that then use Healing Wave, Chain Heal or Riptide to top people off as needed.

    As I discovered the key with Healing Rain is you use it as a bedrock to build your other heals off. While the upfront mana cost is steep, it gives you the foundation to switch to more efficient heals while the its up and so saving mana on the backend.
  • I don't think there is a good hard and fast rule about when to use healing rain based on mana cost and number of users. I mean yeah, don't cast it on just yourself. But sometimes you want the healing ticking on who is standing in the healing rain while being able to heal someone else outside of the rain. Its effectively an expensive hot in that way since Shaman's have few hots. If you have a few seconds to plop it on a group prior to some bigger group wide damage it will tick while you're healing the people up with your single target heals.

    Also, training your raid or dungeon members to stand in the rain whenever possible is key. I know the raid i'm in are now very good at watching for healing raid and the priest healing circle and moving to where it is.

    That being said, you obviously don't want to spam it all the time because you will oom quickly if you do so. So again, pick the times when people are grouped and taking a ton of damage or when you have a few that you can heal with healing rain while allowing you some freedom to heal others at the same time.

    Jexii | Mexiico | Jezaal
  • There is a hard and fast rule, the number is 6. You want to hit at least 6 people with it for it to be more mana and hps efficient than almost anything else you can do. I, personally, am very conservative with HR, I don't think it belongs in dungeons and it doesn't belong in the vast majority of 10-person raid situations. Of course, if you have the mana and like the look of the thing, by all means.

    But, but, you say, what about Chim-10 or Beth-10? Yes, there are specific stages of these fights where HR is important. But if you never cast HR outside of those two encounters, you'd be doing just fine as a Shaman healer.

    This is Jexii healing Beth-10 with heavy HR use -

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/xqwiym78eua56a8o/details/1/?s=1830&e=2209#tab-healspell

    HPSe is 14251.9 and the fight lasts 6m18s. HR is her top healing spell, constituting 22% of all healing. The spell's overheal is a whopping 47%.

    Keks, healing the same fight with 'HR only when I have to' =

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/f8wn5wd3ebmpem78/details/4/?s=4126&e=4547#tab-healspell

    HPSe is 14817.2 and the fight lasts 7m. Top healing spell is Chain Heal, with 29.6% of healing, followed by healing rain at 18.3% and HR overheal of under 30%.



    Post edited by hronk at 2011-08-15 16:23:37
  • I think you missed my point a bit. Of course mathematically there is a point in which other spells are worth more as far as mana goes if there are fewer people in the healing rain circle. But my point was to make sure to think about all aspects of the encounter and not just be mechanical about if there are 6 people cast HR. Such as, if you have a few seconds when no one is taking damage but is about to and we're grouped up then I will cast HR so that it is ticking on people while I am also healing up with other spells. Will overhealing occur in these cases? Absolutely! Since not everyone is at the same amount of damage.

    A run down in firelands:
    Shannox - I never use healing rain, way too spread out
    Baleroc - Never use healing rain, the fight mechanic would just not make sense, also CH is not available
    Rhyolith - HR on Phase 2 only when everyone is grouped - but here is an example, i turn on spirit walkers grace, cast it on the spot we're going to group while running to that spot. Then while we're standing there taking damage I can cast appropriate CH or single target spells to heal people up.
    Beth - HR right before people come down from above and then again in Phase 2 during the blasts of damage - this damage gets progressively worse so the longer the fight lasts the less overhealing will be done as well as higher HPS, I've had fights over 15k hps on this boss when we were taking longer to complete it
    Alythrazor - Only after the fire tornados does healing rain make sense when we are all grouped up

    So again, very situational, it does tend to be 5+ people grouped up but be prepared to think of alternate uses for it.

    It is my opinion that healing is more of an art than a science and the goal is to keep people alive, heal on par with your fellow healers, trying to anticipate damage and don't go oom but try to be fairly low by the end of the fight especially when progressing. If you are at 80% mana and other healers are going OOM, then something is probably wrong with the total picture.


    Post edited by Jexii at 2011-08-15 18:48:32

    Jexii | Mexiico | Jezaal
  • Oh and I completely agree with Hronk on dungeons, I almost never, except maybe for fun, cast HR in dungeons.

    Jexii | Mexiico | Jezaal
  • Well, my point wasn't 'u suk for using HR, lolz!', sorry if it came across that way. If anything, my healing on this (and other) fight(s) is patterned on what I read in your parses. But this is not a mathematical or theoretical thing, we're looking at actual parses. I don't think the logic 'it will free you up to cast something else' really holds up in 99% of situations that arise in regular 10s. Yes, the longer fight drives up the HPS somewhat but then you're running a mastery build which significantly boosts your HST over mine. Taking out the HST, the difference is more pronounced - 11.4k vs 12.2k HPSe. It would likely be greater if I was as good as you at rolling riptides. Our HRs did about the same amount of raw healing, I got in an extra million healing from chain heal. I think in those 'small groups' situations are better handled by chain heal, and I think both the maths and the parses bear that out. Known incoming damage? I dunno, let the people with hots deal with it. This is Shaman PVE!
  • I guess I'm different as I tend to use HR in Dungeons quite frequently. Examples:

    Baron Ashbury (SFK) - I try and get a Healing Rain down just before he casts Asphyxiate, otherwise as soon as the Asphyxiate ends, GHW the tank to give some clearance, Healing Rain the raid, then spam Chain Heal until everybody is topped off enough that Pain and Suffering won't kill them. Usually I finish the fight with 75% mana unless the DPS is terrible.

    Asaad (VP) - When the group collapses into the triangle, drop Healing Rain on the group then top anybody off with Healing Wave or Chain Heal. Unless people are bad with the Chain Lightnings you can usually spend the rest of the fight decursing and tank healing.

    Commander Ulthok (TOTT) - Use it to provide a buffer for the melee if they end up in poo.

    There are probably others I'm not thinking of right now.

    In BH it works really well on Occu'thar. When swapping positions as soon as the group is bunched, drop a Healing Rain then top people up with Chain Heal and Healing Wave as needed in preparation for the next switch, and regen mana or help out on tank healing if the other healer isn't a Paladin. If the group is pro then its very mana efficient as there is very little to heal and you get into a nice rhythm. If the group are bads then you might have to throw a couple of Greater Healing Waves to top people off which puts a dent into the mana efficiency.
  • hronk said:

    Well, my point wasn't 'u suk for using HR, lolz!'


    Well obviously you're saying that! :P No I really didn't take it that way, I love the debate. I just didn't want you to think I literally meant that HR/mana use didn't have a "tipping point" on mana efficiency, I was a physics major after all. Although, not a math major, probably why I trend to the whole its an art mentality blah blah blah.

    But you do raise an interesting point about letting others do hots. I do tend to get on raid healing 99% of the time. Gali (pally) has primary focus on whoever is tanking almost 100% of the time. Harpin often get to tank heal the other tank. Of course we all help on raid and I help on tank. But we don't have 2 druids. I wonder how that changes things? I sort of don't feel like thinking about it at the moment but I would appreciate your thoughts if you notice anything interesting while looking at the logs.

    Jexii | Mexiico | Jezaal
  • Jexii said:

    I was a physics major after all. Although, not a math major, probably why I trend to the whole its an art mentality blah blah blah.



    I was both which is probably why I tend to lean towards the 'jerk' mentality.

    Two druids certainly make more HoTs available (or a druid and another shaman, our other config) but even without that, if I were handed your comp, disregarding habits, personal preference, etc, I'd just put the shaman on one of the tanks, in the default case - it seems a waste of mastery and the ES bonus and top HPS burst to do otherwise. The Holy Priest tools for dealing with multiple non-clumped targets are simply better, too.
  • Bit of preening -

    [21:19:55.748] Keks gains Power Torrent from Keks
    [21:20:02.429] Keks Greater Healing Wave Séxideàth +37194
    [21:20:07.741] Keks's Power Torrent fades from Keks
    [21:20:11.104] Keks Greater Healing Wave Séxideàth +*101314*

    Raid buffed, obviously (this was during our Shannox kill tonight), although a mildly interesting thing is that the cast happened outside the PT buff so, in theory, a heal could be a fair chunk bigger. The build I'm running now is crit/mastery (to avoid mastery DR) - I'm leaving crit as crit, mastery as mastery and reforging haste to mastery where possible.
  • A bit on the so called 'haste caps'. From EJ

    "Do you raid 10s or 25s? Spell composition is different for those. Ancestral Awakening is next to useless in 25mans (R41#69), but can be as much as 10% of your healing in 10mans (R41#71). Earthliving will make up a large percent of your healing in 25mans, but only a small fraction in 10mans."

    And take a look at these

    http://elitistjerks.com/f79/t121202-resto_raiding_4_1_updating_4_2_a/#Haste

    Since Earthliving is not a significant part of 10-person healing, there's really nothing particularly special about 916 haste. If you're a shaman healer running 10s, your haste rating boils down to a matter of personal preference. 800 or 1100 will probably not affect your throughput in any important way.

    There are important breakpoints in the 1500 and 2k range, I think they are really only worth chasing if you're raid healing a 25.
    Post edited by hronk at 2011-08-25 17:00:29

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

In this Discussion

   WeKnow.to © 2006-2017 All Rights Reserved