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DKs fear of raids & gear catch 22
  • Man I hate thinking about raids between being too scared to sign up and/or the random time restraints.

    Okay, so, I'm gearing up my unholy dk with all the top of the line pvp gear, because it seems like the only other gear that will satisfy raiding requirements is the Tier 11 magmaplate stuff that... you can only get from a raid (i think it's t11, nothing is actually labeled that). But I'm not sure what other options there are for gear that's better for raiding that's outside the 'hope it drops and you win it out of 25 people' thing.

    So, can I do raids while geared like this? http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/eitrigg/spinnaker/advanced
    Post edited by Kastang at 2011-05-27 09:04:53
  • My blanket statement would be:

    In most cases you are better off with 346 and the occassional rep / crafted 359 pieces than big PvP gear.

    IN MOST CASES

    Sometimes the mastery or the STR bonus of a PvP piece makes it stand out even when the resilence is wasted budget. The Ret PvP hat for instance.

    I would bet dollars to donuts there's a "Pre-raid gearing list" for unholy DKs out there somewhere.

    Matt
  • Ask and ye shall receive.

    BTW, if the DK I ran Lost City of the Tol'vir with last night is any indication, I can't imagine you have anything to worry about. He was tanking and managed to hold aggro like white on rice while at the same time nearly doubling my DPS. It was disgusting.
    Spencer Cross AKA Lurzmog | Balkhmog | Gobhoblin
  • Although the only way to get t11 helm (Nefarian) and shoulder (Cho'gall) is from killing last bosses in raid instances, you can buy gloves (1650), chest (2200) and legs (2200) from VP that you earn from running random 5 man heroics.
    Also Argaloth of Baradin Hold drops t11 gloves and legs.

    There are non-tier gears like cloak, boots, trinket, relic and rings you can get from VP too.

    Other than these, epic necklace from Ramkahen exalted and crafted BoE epic chest might be a good choice for pre-raiding DK gear.

    ^.~)
    Sofina (hunter) | Antaras (rogue) | Sarshia (druid) | Mefius (death knight)
  • Sofi is correct in saying that you can buy t11 items for valor points. And eventually you will. But that isn't remotely necessary to start raiding. 346 average item level is fine. You can get that through upgrading most of your items to heroic dungeon gear and grabbing 1 or 2 pieces of 359 rep gear.

    The Arena weapon is probably a great start, but you really don't want to head into a raid sporting all PVP gear.
    But I need tacos! I need them or I will explode. That happens to me sometimes.
  • As Bell mentioned, t11 gears are in no way prerequisite kind of thing to start raiding.
    I just wanted to make clear that raiding "is not the only way" to get t11 stuff since it seemed to me that Spin was thinking so from reading his post.

    In any case, for a DPSer it is always good to bring everything you can to down the raid bosses as fast as possible.

    ^.~)
    Sofina (hunter) | Antaras (rogue) | Sarshia (druid) | Mefius (death knight)
  • You only get some small number of Valor points for your once-daily heroic random. While it's possible to buy the T11 gloves, legs and chest this way, it will take about three months. The modicum of Valor points offered by the daily dungeon is intended to be frosting on the cake, not the main course!

    You'll get many more Justice points from running heroics, which you can use to buy 346-level gear. This gear is intended to be the entry-level raiding attire, so it should be more than sufficient—especially if you're lucky enough to complement it with a few 359 epics, such as those from reputations, BoE's, Baradin Hold, etc.

    My PVP gear is 352, 359 and 365. I actually use my PVP gear on trash (where I only need 4% hit, or so), and then use PVE gear on bosses with everything reforged and gemmed for hit. Of course I haven't been doing much heroics or rep grinding these days—there are plenty of pre-raid upgrades I could obtain from the Cataclysm reputation and justice vendors.
  • I would look into maybe an Elementium Dethplate for your chest slot for PvE. You will gain a lot of DPS from that when you replace the Res with more damaging stats and the added strength. It is a iLev 359 piece. I would think you should replace the resilience trinket with something that will give you damaging stats since you gain only a CD to burn from it as it is right now.

    I am far from an expert since I am not a raider, this is just what I can see from comparing my stats to yours.

    With your gear, you have 103 more str than me, and 29 more atk pow. But, your base DPS is 1246.3 dps vs my 1345.4 (so 92.6% of my base DPS).
    Of course, I have 6.2% hit vs your 8% but that is because I am not raiding so anything beyond 6% is a waste for me.

    The biggest gap I see between your spec and mine is in Haste. You have 4.86% haste vs my 13.39%. I think this would be a big loss of some DPS for you in this setup. Our stat weights are supposed to be as follows:
    Str > Hit (to cap)> Haste > Mastery > Expertise > Crit

    What kind of DPS are you pulling in right now? Mine is not high end at all, but at avg iLev of 348 I am doing about 12-13k dps on bosses in heroics (if the boss mechanics permit me to go all out).


    At any rate, here is the Elitist Jerks Unholy DK guide:
    http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t110294-unholy_dps_|_cataclysm_4_0_6_missing_frame/

  • I do use EJ as a model, that's why I'm 8% on hit, ditching all the other specs. I gemmed hit and strength where applicable and perhaps haste does have a lot more to do with it than they let on. I've heard 26% was one cap for uhh haste, I think? But only for DWFrost.

    I'm also wondering if the slight differences in our unholy specs contribute to dps diffs. The only place I veer from EJ is the use of Dark Succor, mainly because AMS isn't as super valuable to me as being able to self-heal for some crazy 17K a pop, which will make cata healers' life *slightly* easier. :)

    And wow, 15K for Elementium Deathplate! At least I'm close to the Vicious Gladiator's Greatsword http://www.wowhead.com/item=67447 ...Not the same armor, but good on strength. Mytrinket incidentally, when used, raises my AP to 13471 or 962 additional dps. 1min CD. I take what I can get :)

    I'm still struggling with trusting the DPS numbers I'm getting while unbuffed. Using Recount on a dummy only goes so far-- and since I've got the standard rotation down + good macros (SS + Pet Claw, or IT/CoI/BB, or UnFr on Pet>Dark Trans>Claw) etc, I think I'm putting out consistent patterns, yet my alleged DPS ranges from 6K-8K, which I believe is too wide. It's like calling a tow truck (between 5 minutes and 2 hrs, gee thanks!).

    -spin
  • spinnaker said:


    I'm still struggling with trusting the DPS numbers I'm getting while unbuffed. Using Recount on a dummy only goes so far-- and since I've got the standard rotation down + good macros (SS + Pet Claw, or IT/CoI/BB, or UnFr on Pet>Dark Trans>Claw) etc, I think I'm putting out consistent patterns, yet my alleged DPS ranges from 6K-8K, which I believe is too wide. It's like calling a tow truck (between 5 minutes and 2 hrs, gee thanks!).



    You may be forgetting other debuffs on your target. Even if you're self-buffed the target dummy you're squaring off with may have debuffs on it from other people that will contribute to your DPS.
    --
    aka Emolate aka Emo aka Sememe aka Senene aka Elmo aka Elmolatte
    Running Windows? Secunia will tell you if you have vulnerable software and browser plugins!
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  • FWIW self-buffed you should be around 10k if you're flasked. The only buffs I gave you was Abom's Might and Horn, and ran an 'Average' player in the Helter Skelter profile.

    image

    Full debuffed target and fully buffed Spinnaker benched at around 12.5k.

    image
    --
    aka Emolate aka Emo aka Sememe aka Senene aka Elmo aka Elmolatte
    Running Windows? Secunia will tell you if you have vulnerable software and browser plugins!
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  • I just fiddled with gems/enchants and some diff gear. Armory isn't updated yet but the basics:

    str: 4306
    dps: 1423.5
    ap: 9433 (10643 with HoW)
    speed: 3.6
    haste 5.54%
    hit: 7.96%
    crit 8.4%
    exp 11
    mastery 10.83

    my resil went down to 1745, but meh, i can spamgrind bgs and arenas and eventually get the points heh.

    oh and emo, that tool you are using is insane.
  • I got my Elementium Deathplate for about 8 or 9k I think. If you really do want that, gather the mats yourself minus the orbs. You should be able to find someone selling smithing recipes for 500 gold per orb or so, factor in a tip, and you should be able to get it for mats + 2k at worst.

    Biggest problem with Dark Succor is it just doesn't work on a lot of spells especially boss and raid spells (it got nerfed hard when nefarion almost 1-shotted himself on a Dark Succor). I forget to use the AMS a lot and it isn't really a big part of my rotation.

    I also forget to use DnD a lot on bosses since I forget to save runes for when it comes off of CD.

    Side note: I have no clue what my theoretical damage should be, only what I am getting in an instance on a boss when reviewing recount.

    Just did my rotation on undebuffed dummies:
    Level 85 dummy: 12.7k dps
    Raid Dummy: 9.9k dps (I am not hit capped for a raid boss)

    (additional edit: I don't have a meta gem either because I have been too lazy to get one when the new ones came out)
    Post edited by Skreath at 2011-02-22 18:25:37
  • I think I tuned it, I'm putting out 11K with no buffs or anything. You guys rock!
  • image
    --
    aka Emolate aka Emo aka Sememe aka Senene aka Elmo aka Elmolatte
    Running Windows? Secunia will tell you if you have vulnerable software and browser plugins!
    http://secunia.com/vulnerability_scanning/online/

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