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Swirly lectures on complex variables, language agnostic, Aug 21 in SF
  • Figured I'd give you guys a heads up before I cross post to other user groups.
    Complex Variables in CFML and Other Languages: Choose Your Own Adventure!

    You enter Sales Report Dungeon. It is dark. You fumble for the specifications but when you find them, they illuminate little. You know that you've seen a dungeon just like this before. You'll see a dungeon just like it tomorrow. You'll probably even have to pass through this dungeon again next week. You'll be flying by the seat of your pants, but you know you have to plan ahead. What you really need is a way to find these items and quickly. You need a system, some consistency-- a map of some sort.

    You reach into your toolkit. What do you choose?


    There will be best practices, anti-patterns, and bad RPG puns. And me! And perhaps even jazzhands!

    The lecture should also be available live online; if you plan to attend online, please don't sign up for the meeting and take a chair slot.
    If you want to stop being called on your bad behavior, stop behaving badly.
  • CF makes me sad. But the lecture does sound interesting! I'm about 3k miles away but I'd love to watch on the live feed if one is available.
    Post edited by Kastang at 2012-08-08 15:03:56
  • Yes, yes, CF makes people sad. And largely for reasons that are not true or are true of every language. ;) The terms vary across languages but the concepts are pretty much the same. I'm planning to do the examples in cfscript so people from other languages don't get all "ewwwwwww brackets!"

    The online version will be on Acrobat connect, so Flash will be required. We have to make the Connect room on the day of the meeting, so I won't have the URL until the 21st. We'll post it to the meetup page, and I'll either post it here myself or get someone to post it for me.
    If you want to stop being called on your bad behavior, stop behaving badly.
  • Post edited by Valisa at 2012-08-09 01:42:18
  • What other languages are you referring to, in your talk's subject title? And with "complex variables", do you mean variables for arrays, hashes, objects, and the like?
  • I'm skipping Objects because it's a can of worms, especially across multiple languages. There are things that I'd have to do in objects in Java that would perform significantly better in CF if I used just about anything but an object-- even though CF is Java-- unless I switch to a specific free CF implementation and talk about how awesome it is, inside Adobe SF and on their meeting system. :D Despite CF being a Java framework, some of the idioms from Java are really kind of terrible in other languages and especially terrible in CF. I am so not going there and end up spending half the lecture arguing with Java programmers about why making everything in an entire application an object is hogging resources for no reason whatsoever.

    I'll be talking about when you might want to use a list vs an array vs a hash/structure/map/dictionary/associative array vs this magical type of associative array that we have in CF that's pretty fracking non-standard. The reason that I'm doing this is that I've seen a lot of developers using variable types that really boggle my mind, and as bad as some CF developers are, the problem is bad decision making, which happens in every language.

    It's mostly theoretical-- discussing best practices, going over some use cases and what you might choose for them and why, with minor coverage of Java, Python, Ruby, and perhaps others, mainly so we can agree on common terminology for discussing the concepts. ActionScript has been suggested. I have a Clojure guy on standby in case I want to get all LISPy. PHP and ASP.NET would probably be good but then I would have to learn them and then I would have to take a shower. ;)

    Basically, the concepts are the same in all languages even though the terms might be different and even though the type that you select might be different because of implementation differences between the languages.

    Also, I might sing "everything is mutable in its own way," which apparently no one else thinks is as funny as I do.
    Post edited by swirly at 2012-08-10 01:18:57
    If you want to stop being called on your bad behavior, stop behaving badly.
  • I think I just don't see why you would compare a markup language with Java, Python or Ruby. I'm assuming here that CFML is a markup language just like HTML is, albeit with a bigger toolkit. Since in Python or Ruby, objects is a must as they're mostly object-oriented languages.
  • CF is a Java framework. "Markup language" describes syntax, not capability. It has access literally to the whole of Java and the whole of .NET. You can even natively use JSP in it. It's object oriented and has been since like 2004.

    It has an ecma-like embedded scripting language that does everything that the markup language does. Do you know why? Because people see "markup language" and go OMG COOTIES I'M GONNA GET COOTIES IF I USE THIS, plus the former Java programmers are a complainy bunch who want to do everything "the Java way" even if it's not appropriate to the task at hand. Hence we now have shortcuts directly to Hibernate even though we already had 3 ORMs.

    The opposition to CF is like saying "Spring is crap because it's not Java." If you look at the Spring config files and go EWWWW MARKUP LANGUAGE you're missing the point. We also have our own Spring, btw.

    Perhaps I should just cut and paste the "why your impression of CF is wrong" slide to this thread. /headdesk
    If you want to stop being called on your bad behavior, stop behaving badly.

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