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4.3 so far?
  • What do people make of it so far? The instances seem almost too easy. Them's no trolls.
    The in-server matchup seems to work nicely, although, as everything else, a mixed blessing.
    "why aren't you pulling?"
    "we're in vent"
    "..."

    Also do DK tanks seem all buffed up to anyone? Like, maybe-they'll-nerf-them-a-little buffed.
  • LFR is cake. Takes less than an hour to clear the first wing. New 5mans are cool, I've only done the first one but I love the hour-class and totem throwing mechanics.

    So far the guy winning at Transmog is the Orc Fury Warrior dual-wielding Corrupted Ashbringers, but I'm walking around sprouting wings so I'm happy.


    Also did they buff the drop on DTR shards or something? I saw at least half a dozen staff events in the time it took to queue for a 5man.
    Post edited by Ashtanga at 2011-11-29 22:57:20
    --
    aka Emolate aka Emo aka Sememe aka Senene aka Elmo aka Elmolatte
    Running Windows? Secunia will tell you if you have vulnerable software and browser plugins!
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  • LFR raid is cake!!? ROFL. Are you sure you were playing on Eitrigg. I joined 3 different LFR and they couldn't get past the third boss. Too many color blind people I think.
  • Pffft goth stripper Gnometank ftw.

    Sadly, the +10 armor on Ruby Shades doesn't make them qualify for transmogrification.

    It seems that the attitude problems have gotten even worse. I got into the first round dungeon about 1pm PST and got attitude for not knowing the fights yet. Server's been up for a good two hours, slacker. It also doesn't help when people as in gchat what the fight mechanic is and get told "don't stand in poo" in a derisive way when that's not even the fight mechanic.

    The DPS queue has been running 30 minutes to an hour, so please, if you are a tank or heals, ask if people want to go with you before you queue.
    If you want to stop being called on your bad behavior, stop behaving badly.
  • Sometimes people are raiding and that's literally all the explanation they can get out ;) To be fair, there's some fights where standing in poo is necessary lol.
    The chintacle can sense fear.
  • Standing in SW and giving "don't stand in poo" with additional derisive text as the mechanic for the Sylvanas fight? No, not called for.
    If you want to stop being called on your bad behavior, stop behaving badly.
  • Wha?
    The chintacle can sense fear.
  • Yeah, pretty much. Anyway.

    Tankard o' terror CONFIRMED as a base for transmogrification and oh by the way, windwalk makes it frosty.

    Frosty beer stein wielding goth stripper Gnometank for the superwin. Happy Swirly.

    Although I did put some jerk on ignore after my vote to kick him failed. Warrior tanking Well of Eternity kind of sucks. Warrior tanking on Well of Eternity with a hunter and a DK is totally fine. I had a guy who kept whining about his repair bill and about how he was losing g on this dungeon because we kept wiping and he kept blaming it on the healer when it was my fault. Anyway, he eventually left and we got in some helpful pugs. LOL

    People just shouldn't be shelling out "you guys are noobs for not knowing this fight that launched 6 hours ago" attitude. There was a lot of that today.

    Swirly don't play dat.
    If you want to stop being called on your bad behavior, stop behaving badly.
  • Jello said:

    LFR raid is cake!!? ROFL. Are you sure you were playing on Eitrigg. I joined 3 different LFR and they couldn't get past the third boss. Too many color blind people I think.



    I wasn't, but LFR is cross-realm anyway and you can queue with a group, I don't know that I'd recommend going solo for a smooth clear.

    That dungeon journal thing is sweet though. It sounds silly but the fact that you can link someone to the mechanic in-game without telling them to go to wowhead is nice.
    --
    aka Emolate aka Emo aka Sememe aka Senene aka Elmo aka Elmolatte
    Running Windows? Secunia will tell you if you have vulnerable software and browser plugins!
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  • I had this darn gnomish tank last night that kept holding aggro no matter what I did with my hunter. I despise competent tanks >.> Also, gnomes should die.

    Oh HAI Swirly! Would you mind being my new heroics mule for my paladin? I <3 you!
    I love gnomes.
  • Yeah LFR with an initial group folks works pretty well - at least right now.

    People who meet the gear requirement right now had to have been in Firelands - as my mage didn't qualify due to her troll shoulders and alchemist stone (everything else Firelands/Molten Front/VP gear) until I bought her a trinket for her bag (Alchemist stone is better for arcane than Rune of Zeth.)

    In a few days the drops from the new heroics will bring more people who have never stepped into Firelands.

    Sadly I didn't win any of the rolls on loot, happily my DPS wasn't too shabby.
  • i loved lfr ran with sandi last night and cleaned up lol!!! trinket and tier shoulders and a off shoulder too! i hear leon's already has his two piece bonus on his druid cause of lovely lfr woot for win
  • Jello said:

    LFR raid is cake!!? ROFL. Are you sure you were playing on Eitrigg. I joined 3 different LFR and they couldn't get past the third boss. Too many color blind people I think.




    I did one last night and we one shotted all the bosses! :P Although 1/2 the DPS, at least, and tanks and some heals, were in mostly heroic FL gear and pulling over 30k easy. I'm sure that will change. It seemed like the group I got at least , were mostly raiders who actually know how to play. It was fun. Once those people gear up, they probably won't be doing that anymore. Unless they have alts or something
    Post edited by Allynn at 2011-11-30 15:46:28
  • swirly said:

    Pffft goth stripper Gnometank ftw.

    Sadly, the +10 armor on Ruby Shades doesn't make them qualify for transmogrification.

    It seems that the attitude problems have gotten even worse. I got into the first round dungeon about 1pm PST and got attitude for not knowing the fights yet. Server's been up for a good two hours, slacker. It also doesn't help when people as in gchat what the fight mechanic is and get told "don't stand in poo" in a derisive way when that's not even the fight mechanic.

    The DPS queue has been running 30 minutes to an hour, so please, if you are a tank or heals, ask if people want to go with you before you queue.



    I seem to recall responding in gchat to someone asking "Are the new 5mans hard?" with "They aren't too bad, don't stand in poo=win." I guess if your referring to my comment then I must be a total jerk for giving a vague answer in response to a vague question.
  • Clef said:

    I had this darn gnomish tank last night that kept holding aggro no matter what I did with my hunter.



    Piffle. You probably didn't even try distracting shot.

    I'm happy to tank some more but hopefully we can find a nice hunter to go with us. I'm better at the Azshara fight now but some misdirect would be really nice. I'll probably start gearing Smites too, since that fight would be cake on her and I hear that blood doesn't suck anymore.
    If you want to stop being called on your bad behavior, stop behaving badly.
  • Jello said:


    I seem to recall responding in gchat to someone asking "Are the new 5mans hard?" with "They aren't too bad, don't stand in poo=win." I guess if your referring to my comment then I must be a total jerk for giving a vague answer in response to a vague question.



    The question was "how do we beat Sylvanas?" which is not a vague question, and the answer was inaccurate. Within a few hours of server scheduled uptime, something similar was said in gchat three times in regards to specific boss mechanics, and this was done by multiple people; your quote was an example.

    The fight mechanic on that boss is NOT "don't stand in poo." Yes, you need to not stand in poo but if you don't know to get down an add and run out, you have no way to not stand in poo. The question was effectively "how do I not stand in poo?" and your answer was "don't stand in poo. win."

    Had the question been "Are the new 5mans hard?" that would have been an appropriate response. But that wasn't the question.
    If you want to stop being called on your bad behavior, stop behaving badly.
  • You need 372 for LFR which is difficult for people who haven't been in Firelands to get. Expect this to change as people gear up via the new 5-mans.
  • I had a response all ready for you Swirly but I it's not worth my time to argue about what was said and not said. Just remember that making personal attacks on someone is not a great way to make friends.
  • Say, I'll second a bit what Jamie and Emory were saying about LFR. I gave it a spin last night and instantly zoned in to a 25-man that had already cleared the first boss. We proceeded to one-shot the next three bosses with pretty minimal hassle. Total time expended about an hour. Most of the DPS was pulling over 25k, the top half dozen were over 30k. My own hps was 11.5k (vs a usual 8 - 9), call it a 30% buff?. Which could be the fight mechanics for those 25 mans, lots of AoE and group heal spells which does increase the HPS.

    So, I got the Achieve and 250VP, lost on the loot rolls though (in two cases by one point!! :). Anyway, it was really easy and kind of fun to get a preview of the fights I hadn't seen, even though there are some different mechanics for normal raids (they dumbed it down for LFR).

    The other thing though that I would say is with the chaos of 25 mans of uncoordinated people I could see this being pretty boring pretty quickly. It more or less is a tank and spank for the healers. You just sit there and mash buttons on your healing spells and hope the DPS and tanks keep it together. Yes you have to stay out of poo and run around a little bit, but not too much. There's no social connection with the raiders, and 25man is too big for idle chit chat in /ra. The ultimate fun factor here doesn't look too high to me. Maybe if we picked a night and queued as a group that would be fun, we could hang out in Vent while running it.

    Yesterday for me it was an easy win, but as people were saying, that may change as the composition of those with 372 gear includes folks with a limited raiding experience.
  • I haven't looked, but I assume that there's an iLevel requirement for the new 5-mans? Is it the same as the trolls or is it steeper?
  • I haven't checked what it is but it can't be much steeper - I see people in blues, people doing 10k dps (with 15% pug bonus), etc, etc. Tanks that would die an ignominious death in a troll roll right through these. I was complaining before they were too easy but now I'm realizing they're intended to be a way to _skip_ the trolls and move on to LFR. They are, without a doubt, much easier than the trolls for vastly better returns.
  • ilvl for the new 5-mans is ilvl 353. Trolls are ilvl 346.
    Post edited by Zoriana at 2011-12-01 12:35:49
  • Yeah at this point that's a difference without a distinction - one JP piece moves you from one to the other.
  • Pretty much you can bypass the troll instances now. In fact I suspect if they hadn't folded them into the regular cataclysm heroic pool people would be skipping them left right and center.

    The Trolls always seemed to occupy a weird point in the progression structure. My guess is that Firelands was running late, but they didn't want to provide easy access to ilvl 359 gear at that point in time. The progression path of the Cataclysm endgame has been so messed up that nothing surprises me at this point.
    Post edited by Zoriana at 2011-12-01 12:58:27
  • Zoriana said:

    if they hadn't folded them into the regular cataclysm heroic pool



    Didn't even notice that. Explains the 10k to 35k dps variance somewhat (along with the bottom-of-barrel ilvl requirement).
    Post edited by hronk at 2011-12-01 12:58:55
  • Yeah generally the people who are saying that LFR/The new 5-mans are easy are probably at least 1-2 gear tiers above the intended tuning level and are not the intended audience. Same thing happened with the old Zul Aman with BT geared guilds complaining that it was too easy, while the intended audience (Kharazan geared players) were finding Hex Lord a bit of a challenge.

    Really they should keep the two progression paths separate so that raiders aren't forced to run 5-mans for points, and 5-man heroic players don't have to put up with someone in full heroic raiding gear telling them their dps sucks when all they have access to is 5-man and justice gear.
    Post edited by Zoriana at 2011-12-01 13:05:42
  • Can I just say that I REALLY hope that they add LFR for leveling as well? I'd love to level a toon, turn off xp for a while, do some classic raids. Go to 70, do some more classic raids. Go to 80, do some more. Etc, etc, etc.

    And even more than that, like in MoP where they are adding challenge modes that normalize gear, it sure would be fun to LFR and select older raids with your gear normalized to that tier of content. Man, you'd never be bored with raiding! Could you imagine not only doing any raid, but also any dungeon, being normalized with gear and stat levels? That would be really cool and open up a lot of content!

    I really wish my comp would get here!
  • There is a bit of a difference, though, I think. BT-geared guilds found ZA easy because they were used to complex mechanics - otherwise they would not be BT-geared. You can stroll in a troll today resplendent in 378 battle-shorts and fail miserably, because the fights and trash are still mechanically complex (arguably, too much so).
    Without passing judgement on them, the new instances are much, much simpler in terms of mechanics. They would have probably benefited from a regular/heroic split, both to gear up newcomers and to give overgeared old farts something interesting to do.
  • thujo said:

    I'd love to level a toon, turn off xp for a while, do some classic raids. Go to 70, do some more classic raids. Go to 80, do some more.



    I think you're underestimating how much the game, or at least, the expectations of what a game like that should be like, in difficulty, has changed over the years. Many 'classic' raids are tuned to a point that would simply be unacceptable for any kind of at-level casual play. I'm not arguing for the 'good old days' here, I think most of the changes that engender accessibility are good.

    Razorgore or Twin Emps or (insert your favourite here) still takes minutes to finish, at 85. Imagine them with 40 people where one person doing 80 dps is truly outstanding.
  • hronk said:

    There is a bit of a difference, though, I think. BT-geared guilds found ZA easy because they were used to complex mechanics - otherwise they would not be BT-geared.



    I would agree with this on Dragonhawk as that fight had a lot of moving parts and was unlike anything thus far, but Hex Lord was a pure dps check which was a tuned rather tight for the gear that was available via Kharazan and ZA to that point. Once the Isle of QQ badge gear became available it was much easier which was that point that most 10-man strict raiders started killing him in larger numbers.

    I think the updated Troll instances IMHO have too many insta-gibs in them. Mechanics where if you fail to do what you are supposed to do, you die. Insta-gibs are fine when they are telegraphed and you have a reasonable time to react, but when the insta-gib appears directly under you and you have seconds to move its a bit much especially for the melee pile and healers who might be fighting fires elsewhere. Heroic Stonecore also suffers from this problem.

    As I mentioned before the key difference between the old days and now is that in the old days players were divided based on the tier of content they were working on. Until the LFG/DF appeared people who were doing tier N content rarer interacted with people doing tier N-1 or N-2. Now with everybody being somewhat forced to interact with each other Blizzard has to tune to content to the lowest common denominator rather than being able to assume that the person in the raid/group has learned the skills needed to beat the fight in previous encounters.

    This makes everybody unhappy as skilled players lack the content challenge and feel they are carrying unskilled players to easy loot, while unskilled players complain that the content is too hard but have no incentive to improve as they just requeue and hope they get lucky in the DF lottery.
  • Zoriana said:


    I would agree with this on Dragonhawk as that fight had a lot of moving parts and was unlike anything thus far, but Hex Lord was a pure dps check which was a tuned rather tight for the gear that was available via Kharazan and ZA to that point.



    We're splitting some exceedingly fine hairs here! :]

    I think for the new stuff -

    Updated trolls - far too hard, especially as the main form of getting VP and for the return they provided throughout 4.2.
    New instances - far too easy, as perhaps they should be to help people catch up to 378. It seems an obvious enhancement is for them to have an actual 'heroic' mode (without making the term meaningless) that provides a half-tier, 384-ish set of upgrades that's as difficult as the trolls (as in, it will be hard at 378, and it won't be worth it at t13).

  • i think there is a bit of confusion with difficulty and length too. If the updated trolls were at most 3 bosses long it wouldnt matter that some of the mechanics were a bit tricker. but when you hop in a troll your in for a 6 boss encounter which is gonna take you the better part of a hour.
  • epic gems for sale!

    --
    aka Emolate aka Emo aka Sememe aka Senene aka Elmo aka Elmolatte
    Running Windows? Secunia will tell you if you have vulnerable software and browser plugins!
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  • 8k for a gem? /unsubscribe
  • Well when you've got a dozen guilds trying for top-100 world rankings and the supply is short, this is basic economics.
    --
    aka Emolate aka Emo aka Sememe aka Senene aka Elmo aka Elmolatte
    Running Windows? Secunia will tell you if you have vulnerable software and browser plugins!
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  • Also these prices are going to vary (somewhat) widely from server to server. I've seen lower prices on Eitrigg for most things.
    Post edited by Zurena at 2011-12-04 14:48:46
  • If you are continually wiping in the new instances, this is probably the player standing next to you:

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/jubeithos/Anotherplaya/simple

    Equipped ilvl 335, green "Of the Monkey" boots. Almost everything ungemmed and unenchanted. 4k dps. Complains that when the healer dies because we have 4 mages up on Azshara its become I'm not healing hard enough.

    Stay pro.

    Post edited by Zoriana at 2011-12-05 07:51:48
  • >.<)
    Sofina (hunter) | Antaras (rogue) | Sarshia (druid) | Mefius (death knight)
  • Zurena said:

    Also these prices are going to vary (somewhat) widely from server to server. I've seen lower prices on Eitrigg for most things.



    If anyone wants the prices, of anything, on eitrigg, or other servers. http://theunderminejournal.com/ is where it's at. They do hourly scans from the online auction houses of every US server. It's very accurate, usually more accurate than auctioneer. they have a lot of nifty features too, more than just prices. This is THE source for AH prices. :)
    Post edited by Allynn at 2011-12-05 08:31:11
  • Allynn said:

    Zurena said:

    Also these prices are going to vary (somewhat) widely from server to server. I've seen lower prices on Eitrigg for most things.



    If anyone wants the prices, of anything, on eitrigg, or other servers. http://theunderminejournal.com/ is where it's at. They do hourly scans from the online auction houses of every US server. It's very accurate, usually more accurate than auctioneer. they have a lot of nifty features too, more than just prices. This is THE source for AH prices. :)
    Awesome, thanks for this. I usually use http://www.wowecon.com/ and it's a pain in the ass.
    Spencer Cross AKA Lurzmog | Balkhmog | Gobhoblin
  • New Darkmoon Faire = win!
  • Allynn said:

    It's very accurate, usually more accurate than auctioneer. they have a lot of nifty features too, more than just prices. This is THE source for AH prices. :)



    I'd seen the site before but did not realize (it's poorly advertised, maybe because however it's done, it's borderline ToS violation) they actually do hourly scans - unlike most such sites that rely on user uploads. It doesn't replace the various clever search features of Auctioneer but if you're not an inveterate scanner, this is very, very accurate and useful.

    Patch week or so is a great way to build up a little trading nest-egg, my alt tailor/disenchanter healer brings in about 400-600g per HoT run (that's satchel, DE mats, embersilk). My take so far from this and other basic trading is about 30k. I shudder to think what serious JC'ers have made.

  • While we're waiting:

    Thrall does not seem to know the meaning of 'figurehead'

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/figurehead

    Mistranslation from orcish?
  • Zoriana said:

    If you are continually wiping in the new instances, this is probably the player standing next to you:



    My solution for this is that I don't heal those people. This is so that I can stop OOMing because the fight takes twice as long.
    --
    aka Emolate aka Emo aka Sememe aka Senene aka Elmo aka Elmolatte
    Running Windows? Secunia will tell you if you have vulnerable software and browser plugins!
    http://secunia.com/vulnerability_scanning/online/

  • I've taken the same tack. Just let the 10k'er die/wookie win.
  • Yeah I've started taking the same tack.

    Less than 10k dps,
    get healed last.
    No Lay On Hands for you.
    Post edited by Zoriana at 2011-12-06 15:57:17
  • Just a couple of runs ago, I had an non-buffing druid. Both tank and I spent a good 5 minutes asking for the buff, to no avail. A very conscientious Aussie dps'er suggested the druid maybe could not read our language (clearly, this is what happens when crushing your minorities is a recent, rather than distant memory!). No vegemite sandwich was offered.

    We never did find out if we were struggling with a language barrier. I just let him/her die on the second pull. Rezed and got buffed right off. Smooth sailing to dungeon completion.
    Post edited by hronk at 2011-12-06 16:48:10
  • Next time just link this in chat and all should be resolved without the need for violence.
  • Zoriana said:

    Yeah I've started taking the same tack.

    Less than 10k dps,
    get healed last.
    No Lay On Hands for you.


    rofl..<3 geren's lay on hands!<br />
    Post edited by Leonharrt at 2011-12-07 03:01:27
    image
  • I had a queue for the new heroics this morning as a DPS that took four minutes. It was advertised at four, and clocked in (by my rough estimation) just past that mark. Crazy.
    a/k/a Victarious
  • love the 4 sec ques for healers in LFR.. lol
    Sandrika, Crazan, Squeatus To often we post in anger, when waiting and thinking and letting that boiling pot settle would be sooo much better.

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